Debunking the “spoiler” myth
July 2nd, 2008 by Jason PyeIt is time to put the “spoiler” argument to rest. The most recent poll out of North Carolina shows that Bob Barr is appealing to both Republicans, Democrats and independent minded voters.
Take a look at the crosstabs. Bob Barr appeals to 4 percent of both Republicans and Democrats. We can also lay claim to 12% of independent voters.
Poll Position, formerly Insider Advantage, showed similar numbers in Georgia last month. Barr polls at 7.5 percent among Republicans and 5 percent, only slightly less, among Democrats.
As Barr campaign manager Russ Verney told me today, “Republicans are trying to establish a scapegoat for losing the 2008 election four months before the election.” He added, “Bob can’t ‘take’ votes from anyone because they don’t own the votes, they have to earn the votes just like Bob and competition is the American way.”
July 2nd, 2008 at 7:32 pm
I am confident Bob Barr given the kind of media exposure that the other two candidates are and have been receiving would easily drive Barr to surpass Obama and McCain in the polls. I am baffled, however, why I have seen or heard nothing of Barr in the western states. I reside in Texas and must admit that if it had not been for the Glen Beck and Bob Barr interview I would still to this day have no idea who Barr was. There is only 4 months till Election Day and time is quickly running out. I would only imagine that the reason for the lack of campaigning in my neck of the woods would be due to a lack of funds. I hope and pray that the Libertarian Party is not just hoping to receive enough votes to receive government funding for another campaign in 4 more years. I would much prefer to see Barr win here and now and bring an end to the corrupt 2 party system. Let’s get the fund raising moving, and the people informed and start making that difference.
July 2nd, 2008 at 8:01 pm
Russ Verney is absolutely right. No one owns any votes. Each candidate has to earn each vote.
That said, Bob’s campaign got off to a much later start than his major rivals.
What it means is that every one of us supporting him has to work harder each day to make his positions known and to raise money for him.
He’s been getting some very good national press over the past few weeks and we need to assure that will continue.
I’ve seen good ideas under different threads here that we need to be sure get to those making decisions in the campaign.
We also have to take the initiative ourselves to do everything possible to spread the word about Bob.
People (Democrats and Republicans and Independents) are hungry for a candidate they can support this year. Bob fills the void because he is in touch with the American people who are tired of the Washington way of doing business and want to return to the founding principles that made this nation so great.
Please donate today to help fund this camapign and then plan on making your next donation as soon as possible.
July 2nd, 2008 at 8:48 pm
Mike F: That is where we come in sir. I have been using my power of the internet to graciously e-mail Barr’s web page to everyone I know. It has sparked a lot of conversation. You might in the process want to steer them toward Aaron Russo’s interview on youtube.com called “Architect of a prison planet” and his documentry call “Freedom To Fascism” (which you can find the full length video on Video.google.com). People knowing the truths that come out in these videos should help to sway people into the Libertarian mindset with a lot more ease. For some it’s scarry to think of something different running our country but it’s even more terrifying knowing what IS running our country. Show those videos to as many people as you can and the word will spread like wildfire. It’s up to us, let’s not give this one away. click on my name to see the “Architect” interview on my website.
July 2nd, 2008 at 8:53 pm
Since 9/11, the Libertarian and Constitution Parties are no longer spoiler votes. Both are completely different ideologies than Republican neo-”conservatism” and Democratic liberalism. It’s not like the Green Party, which is basically an extreme wing of the same ideology with an environmentalist flavor. Nor is it like the old Reform party, since the Republican Party is no longer conservative.
July 2nd, 2008 at 9:16 pm
I’m afraid the constitution party is a shambles, though.
July 2nd, 2008 at 9:25 pm
This is very true and is an excellent response to the spoiler myth. Libertarians also generally get a third of their vote from people who wouldn’t otherwise bother.
But people will still be chided to not “waste their vote” – a concern that this does not respond to.
Thankfully, there is enough in each “major” candidate to make any liberty-loving American sick. I hear that Obama has a major revolt among supporters on his website over his position on FISA.
July 2nd, 2008 at 11:06 pm
I believe the Liberarian party is much more viable than the Constitution party, for three reasons: (1). It appeals to people all across the polical spectrum and with diverse personal values (not heavily theocratic), (2) it is more well known to the general population, and (3) Bob Barr has much more experience in the political and legal realms than Chuck Baldwin. Most voters have at least heard of the libertarian party, but almost nobody has heard of the constitution party, and far more have heard of Bob Barr than of Chuck Baldwin.
It is unfortunate that Ron Paul’s supporters are split between these two parties. We should unite to support one or the other. I hope Ron Paul endorses one or the other and explains his reasons, though might risk coming across as disloyal to his friend Chuck Baldwin who endorsed and campaigned for him for awhile. I hope Ron Paul continues to do what is best for this country, putting loyalty to his USA above political loyalties, and gives a clear endorsement to Bob Barr.
The only spoiler might be Chuck Baldwin to Bob Barr within the Campaign for Freedom movement.
July 2nd, 2008 at 11:23 pm
mccain and obama r spoiling america!!!!!!!!!!
July 3rd, 2008 at 12:18 am
At this point I dont think people who are Constitutionalist or “freedom lovers” I will say should vote for the Constitutional Party. I saw it mentioned in some comments and the party is just not well known and has no chance of even getting in the MSM. The Libertarian Party needs to get some good people to get Barr in some debates with McCain and Obama if he wants to make an impact. One thing I can not stand about this country is how the media dictates who people get to see and worse not see. Barr must get into the debates.
My Uncle is adamant that I vote for McCain as he is very distressed at the idea of a marxist like Obama being president and also i suppose taking more of his money, so Obama can “decide” what to do with it. So I dont know, I may vote for Barr I think I will end up doing so the idea of voting for McCain is stomach wrenching.
July 3rd, 2008 at 1:46 am
You can’t spoil what’s already rotten.
July 3rd, 2008 at 2:26 am
In truth, it could be argued that the truly wasted vote is a vote for the Republican or Democrat, as neither of these parties will bring about any meaningful reformation or change.
July 3rd, 2008 at 7:22 am
I propose an internet infiltration of the grandest scale. Log onto the websites of the evil duo and start posting messages giving the facts of why they are not right for America. You can Google all of the information you will need. Get a message in anyway you can. I guarantee that people will start doing thier own research and might even change their mind. the message is simple and easy to understand. In fact, I believe this is one of the only parties where integrity with the issues still stands.
July 3rd, 2008 at 8:19 am
http://news.yahoo.com/page/election-2008-political-pulse-the-middle
I posted this link in another comment section. There are many, many Americans that have had enough. I understand John’s statement above about almost voting for McCain because the thought of Obama as president is absolutely disturbing. But at some point, we have to stop the vicious, detrimental cycle the government is in and take back our country. Otherwise, within two or three presidential elections… Well, it frightens me to think what our country will be like then.
“Constantly choosing the lesser of two evils is still choosing evil.” - Jerry Garcia
July 3rd, 2008 at 9:17 am
I just posted a message on the Barak Obama’s website, I encourage everyone to do the same, even McCains site which is next on my list
July 3rd, 2008 at 10:00 am
Ruth: is there any possiblility the Constitution Party and it’s nominee would suspend it’s campaign and join with us in promoting Bob Barr.
We have such an opportunity this year to make headway on principles we both support.
And if the Ron Paul supporters could join us united…..it would be a huge strategic step forward.
There would be so many of us to reach out to disaffected Democrats and Republicans…………I think there is a substantial group in each of the 2 major Parties that will likely not vote at all for the 2 choices before them….but might well find renewed spirit with us and Bob.
Look at how active the blog is here these days!
July 3rd, 2008 at 10:06 am
Stephen: you hit the nail right on the head.
There should be no apology for supporting and voting for Bob.
If enough people did the right thing instead of the old ‘choosing between the lesser of two evils’, think of how far ahead our nation could be!
July 3rd, 2008 at 10:56 am
The Constitution Party, Ron Paul supporters and libertarians must unite. Together, we would be a powerful voting bloc. If these entities are serious about freedom, they will come together for the common good. We need to convince Ron Paul and the Constitution Party leaders that that is the only way to oust the major parties. Thank goodness for the Internet-we can influence public opinion by by-passing the mainstream media. Let’s get to work on our computers and on university campuses everywhere. Young people are looking for a cause they can support. I know this because I work with university students. All we need do is educate them about the truth.
July 3rd, 2008 at 11:25 am
watch this video:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3218585954111617501
and keep it going!
July 3rd, 2008 at 11:37 am
Michael has a good idea if you are somehow able to bypass the other candidates’ site moderators. As soon as a negative post or a post promoting another candidate is written and posted it is deleted. I know because I just tried. I would suggest starting by sending emails to all your friends and relatives suggesting they just check out Barr and the Libertarian party, but don’t try to ram it down their throat. Gentle persuasion is always more productive than forceful dictation. From there I would perhaps recommend joining some political forums and/or chat rooms. If we can get the people to just view the information with an open mind, I am confident common sense and acceptance would prevail. If the following grows large enough and fast enough, the media will have no choice but to mention it at the least.
.
July 3rd, 2008 at 11:54 am
Here is a copy of a letter I sent to my congressman, Ron Paul. I would urge you all to send similar letters to yours. If we don’t speak up then we will never be heard!!
Dear Congressman Paul,
I would like to request that you represent your constituents by publicly supporting Bob Barr for president. I would have liked to have seen you get the nomination, but I think that by having a third party enter the political mix would be even more productive at controlling some of the political corruption which is so ramped in Washington. Mr. Barr appears to share many of the views which you were so very vocal about during your campaign. So I ask you again, please endorse Bob Barr for President, and don’t let missed placed political party loyalty dictate the outcome of this election and our country.
July 4th, 2008 at 10:38 am
I found it interesting that in the issues crosstab at the quoted site (http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/pdf/PPP_Release_NC701.pdf), Barr supporters cared more about taxes and immigration. While those are good issues, Bob doesn’t seem to be drawing much attention on the two “hot buttons” in that survey: Iraq and the Economy. Hopefully this is a cue to the campaign about where they need to put more emphasis.
July 5th, 2008 at 12:58 am
There is more than one reason to vote. There is nothing philosophically or morally wrong with voting for a candidate one agrees with even if that candidate may not win. We all know there is something wrong with voting for the lesser of two evils. Nonetheless we use a system that expects voters to do exactly that.
July 6th, 2008 at 10:07 am
Let me tell you what will happen. Bob will be the spoiler for Mccain, Obama will get the whitehouse. the Dems will have the house and senate, they will legalize immigrants to be abel to vote and thats the last time we’ll see a two party system. It will push back your libertarian agenda for good. It will belong to the dems for years UNTILL there are enough mexicans to vote in a mexican president . Do the math , open boarders,having more mexican children. this country will never be the same.You know how well a mexico is governed. viva amerimexcio! Thanks Bob
July 6th, 2008 at 12:06 pm
Wow! Anna thinks he has a crystal ball! p.s. Why do male McCain supporters always use a feminine screen name? Makes you say, “Hmmmm.”
July 6th, 2008 at 4:00 pm
While it would be nice if Ron Paul endorsed Barr, it is not going to happen. First of all, Paul has said many times that he wants to try and affect change within the Republican party, and thus he won’t do anything, such as endorsing a third party candidate like Bob Barr or even Chuck Baldwin, that could be grounds for him getting kicked out of the party. Secondly, while he has said good things Bob Barr, Paul would not want to alienate his friend Chuck Baldwin, who endorsed Paul. I think the best we can do is try to convince as many of Ron Paul’s campaign for Liberty supporters that Bob Barr would be a better alternative than Baldwin. This will be hard enough in itself, as I see a lot of comments on the CFL site of people criticizing, with some justification, Barr’s voting record in Congress. Some people are even saying that Bob Barr is part of a neocon plot to take over the LP. The key will be to convince them that, while not having Ron Paul’s amazingly consistent 30 year record of defending liberty, Bob Barr has truly and sincerely changed his mind since then, and he and the Libertarian Party are the best choice for 2008.
July 6th, 2008 at 4:47 pm
Mark S. I am one of those Ron Paul supporters who criticizes Bob Barr’s voting record in Congress. Who knows, his conversion could be a neocon conspiracy. At this point, there is no way he can convince me he’s truly “made the leap.” And his endorsement for VP of a man who wrote a book titled “The Millionaire Republican” makes me even more suspicious. I want to vote for Bob Barr, but he’s no Ron Paul. Not by a long shot.
July 6th, 2008 at 7:14 pm
I am so sick of John McCain hijacking the Republican party and lying about everything. He has become a poor shell of his former self. He has allowed GW to take away our liberties. Bob Barr really has the country’s best interest at heart, not McSame. I came here several years ago legally, and expect others to do the same. Please donate and get Mr. Barr on every ballot in every state. Barr should go after the Southern voters and the working male. These are two groups that will back him, try to get on more stations as well. Why doesn’t Fox News have him on. The MSM is enamored with McSame.
July 8th, 2008 at 12:12 pm
If the Republicans really wanted to do something about the spoiler effect they would be supporting instant run-off voting and I wish Bob would talk more about IRV and other electoral reforms that can help to break the two party monopoly on political power.
July 8th, 2008 at 3:32 pm
If Bob will take a firm stance on controlling illegal immagration including how to deal with those already here, he would have my vote. The other 2 clowns are ready to start speaking Spanish in order to get elected or more to the point, they will agree that you and I speak Spanish in the future.