Barr interviewed by GQ
June 30th, 2008 by Jason PyeBob Barr recently answered some tough questions from GQ. He was asked about his change of heart on a few different issues such as Iraq, the PATRIOT Act and about what role government should play in our lives. Below are some excerpts.
On Iraq:
You have opposed the Bush administration on a number of issues, including the war, but what is your policy for Iraq going forward?
To me, it is utterly irresponsible to continue the course that we’ve embarked upon. If our goal was to get rid of Saddam Hussein, we liberated the people from Saddam Hussein. But now we’re five and a half years later, and we’re still over there, and it’s very costly to us. I don’t think the American taxpayers focus on how much the occupation is draining resources. Four-hundred-plus million dollars every single day. You talk to some Republicans and they say, “The Iraqis love us.” Well, maybe so. But who wouldn’t? We’re propping up their economy, we’re protecting their borders, we’re providing security. Of course they love us.
On Education:
So in your opinion, as a long-term goal, there should be no government involvement in education?
And in the short term, I believe there is no appropriate or legitimate role for the federal government.How would you accomplish that?
By getting the federal government out of it. I forget what the budget of the Department of Education is, but those billions of dollars should not be vested in the federal government. That money should go back to the people. There’s no reason whatsoever for the federal government to be involved in education.
On Government:
And this is a democracy, and the government should do what they want.
It’s not a democracy. We have certain principles. The government exists to provide very limited functions—for example, free commerce.The government exists to do whatever people want it to do.
Part of the problem is that we no longer have a truly educated public. The Founding Fathers lived in a very different world. They lived in a world where people understood and cared about the written word. They had a much more educated citizenry.
You can read the full interview here.
June 30th, 2008 at 5:03 pm
Good interview, and I think that the fact that Bob Barr is not afraid to say that he was wrong on some issues, and say definitively that he has changed his position after analysis and hindsight is a very positive statement of character. We are under a class of politicians that use every nuance of spin to avoid admitting that they changed positions or were wrong about something. President Bush seems incapable of even conceiving that he is wrong about anything. I think that it is very, very encouraging to witness a highly talented and intelligent man who can learn, adjust, and correct himself along the way. The Bob Barr of 2008 is a very capable person for the presidency, in a quite healthy and intelligent way that has been missing from Washington for far too long.
June 30th, 2008 at 5:57 pm
“Part of the problem is that we no longer have a truly educated public. The Founding Fathers lived in a very different world. They lived in a world where people understood and cared about the written word. They had a much more educated citizenry.”
Wow, Bob, you’re really starting to impress me. Their proper command of language and logic is rarely acknowledged.
I agree with Stephen above. Your tone is very refreshing, Mr. Barr, and I’m sure the electorate will feel the same way.
June 30th, 2008 at 6:02 pm
I would rather vote for a candidate who was wrong in the past than for a candidate who is still wrong.
June 30th, 2008 at 6:16 pm
This is more good media for Bob. He is getting around to all the right places.
I just came back from the NASCAR race in NH.
Early in the am I staked out a picnic table under the bleachers and talked to all the folks who came and went sitting there for a bit to talk about Bob and making sure they knew how to access his website.
I stressed how important it was to get him on the ballot in each state NOW so he could be a choice in November.
A few people said they would donate a small amount even though they hadn’t made up their mind yet.
There was quite a bit of interest………..there is a lot of disappointment with McCain as the Republican choice…………it’s leaving a real void and people are interested in hearing how Bob might fill that void.
We need to use every opportunity to talk him up and ask for support.
June 30th, 2008 at 7:30 pm
Bob is exactly correct on the War in Iraq. As one who has been a passionate Pro-Defense Libertarian and hardcore supporter of the War in Iraq, I agree; It’s time to start bringing them home.
We accomplished our objectives, fantastically so: We got Saddam despite all the rantings by Leftists who said we’d never get him, and we’ve established a thriving democracy right smack dab in the middle of the Middle East that’s even showing some signs of free market capitalism, and yes, even libertarianism.
We can’t have the Iraqis dependent on us forever. Time to start weaning them off our support. The War has been won!
June 30th, 2008 at 8:08 pm
“It’s not a democracy. We have certain principles. The government exists to provide very limited functions—for example, free commerce.”
“The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government.” - U.S. Constitution, Article IV, Section 4.
Makes one wonder what school the interviewer went to, and which country it was in. Did he have a heavy accent or something, Bob?
June 30th, 2008 at 8:28 pm
Digg IT!
http://digg.com/2008_us_elections/GQ_Interviews_Bob_Barr_Give_Him_Liberty_Or
ABC ran the story online also.
http://digg.com/2008_us_elections/Republican_Turned_Libertarian_Bob_Barr_on_His_Candidacy
June 30th, 2008 at 8:33 pm
A tough interview and good answers. I would like to see McCain and Obama grilled like this.
June 30th, 2008 at 10:36 pm
I’d prefer Barr be clearer on his past transgressions against individual liberties, why he was very wrong on very serious issues (not just that he was voting for what he hoped was something else, but that the actual votes and legislations were authoritarian and inconsistent with Libertarian goals), and why the Republicans and Democrats have been wrong all this time and why the LP had it right.
Now, that would be a much stronger, winning message, Bob.
June 30th, 2008 at 11:11 pm
“Democracy is a form of religion. It is the worship of jackals by jackasses.” –H.L. Mencken
“Democracy is the theory that the common man knows what he wants–and deserves to get it, good and hard.” –H.L. Mencken
“The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.” –Winston Churchill
“Democracy is just mob rule in a sports jacket.” –Doug Casey
July 1st, 2008 at 6:43 am
You don’t impress me worth a damn! You know that we (Republicans) stand a slim chance of winning anyway, and here you are trying to muddy up the water for John McCain! You need a stick taken to your *** and I don’t mean a switch! A big, thick Hickory stick! I don’t favor what John McCain has done as a Republican but he is the lesser of two evils. With the other being so evil that I don’t look forward to hearing the election results. You should be ashamed but I guess your ego or something else, maybe hatred of McCain, is blinding your judgement. What ever the case you need to stop this nonsense before you do anymore damage to our Republic!
July 1st, 2008 at 7:22 am
Hey Frank, Get this…we’re all tired of “the lesser of two evils” we want someone who stands for what our founding fathers intended with government.
Do more damage to the republican party??? the republican party has left its loyal voters high and dry, I for one dont want another republicrat in the office, and I have been a loyal republican voter since I started voting.
anyone who wants change that votes for the lesser of two evils is wasting their vote. its time to tell our two party system we dont want your **** anymore!
July 1st, 2008 at 9:43 am
The lesser of two evils, Frank? Seriously, tell me what it’s like to have no conscience. I will await your reply.
July 1st, 2008 at 9:56 am
@Frank
Here is the thing, you aren’t scaring me with the ‘lesser of two evils’ schtick. It’s tired, its old, its manipulative, and its not going to work.
I will grant you that Bob Barr is a long shot to win. But, long shots can win sometimes, and more importantly, its important to build the Libertarian party, build the base, to put this party in a stronger position to win, every election cycle. Steady growth is the path to victory.
You really think I care if Obama or McCain win? I don’t. McCain is not the lesser of two evils, he’s simply “ONE OF THE TWO EVILS”
I will work my best to help a good candidate win “Bob Barr” I suggest you do the same.
July 1st, 2008 at 10:00 am
“Part of the problem is that we no longer have a truly educated public. The Founding Fathers lived in a very different world. They lived in a world where people understood and cared about the written word. They had a much more educated citizenry.”
Bob,
So how can we truly educate the public without federal funding? Left to their own devices, States and localities sink to the lowest common denominator. Education is bad in the U.S. thanks, in large part, not to Federal inteference, but thanks to local school boards. Local school board members are often unqualified and as dumb as dirt. Without national standards how do we enhance education?
–Herb.
July 1st, 2008 at 10:17 am
George Bush, Jr. as President, faced some serious challenges to this nations safety. 9/11 was a major attack on our own soil. The Katrina disaster was catastrophic to one of our great cities, New Orleans.
In the scope of our countries history, Al-Qaeda is certainly a threat, but probably not the threat in comparison to Nazi Germany and fascist Japan, the Soviet Union…other events like the Civil War were certainly greater threats to our republic. However, Al-Qaeda was George Bushes challenge, and it was important for him to meet the challenge. How did he do?
One has to put things into perspective, because George Bush Jr. did give away 200+ years of freedoms, saying its time to trade in such cherished rights, as due process, privacy, warrants, etc… when previous presidents met the challenges of their day, without such unnecessary, and foolish measures. The difference, of course, is in George Bushes value system, in his way of thinking, America is not so much a country of principle and ideas, as it is simply a country that people fear. That power is the basic principle on which further power is obtained.
Going after Al-Qaeda…if that is what we had concentrated on, we would have Osama in custody, or dead already. Instead, George used the Al-Qaeda threat as a pretext for his power grabs. Instead of success against Al-Qaeda we have a quagmire in Iraq.
McCain has infamously confused Al-Qaeda and Iran and cannot keep the middle east players straight at all. McCain wants 100 years in Iraq.
One only has to remind themselves of George Bush to understand why you don’t vote for the lesser of two evils.
George Bush, record power grabs for the federal government. Record spending. Huge deficits. No meaningful response to Katrina type disasters, and out of touch, opportunisitc grabs for power in response to 9/11. Osama Bin Laden could have been caught by now, if only we had focused our attention on that goal.
We got Saddam Hussein, who was most certainly not behind the 9/11 attacks, and the person who certainly was…is still free.
Anyway, take your pick, economy, foreign policy, you name it George Bush mucked it up. The doddering old fool John McCain is not getting my support. Period. End of story.
July 1st, 2008 at 10:21 am
If this is true it adds a whole new dynamic to things. It means, more than ever, we really need to convince the public to vote for Barr.
July 1st, 2008 at 10:22 am
P.S. Our founding fathers were elitists. And that’s not a bad thing. Mob mentality has a habit of dumbing-down.
July 1st, 2008 at 10:22 am
I agree with “stay out of my life”. If you want to keep seeing a “lesser of two evils” choice long into the future, Frank, go right ahead and follow the other lemmings.
July 1st, 2008 at 11:26 am
Aaron Russon said it best, he said, and i’m paraphrasing, when you have 51% of the population making the decisions of 49% of the population, you dont have democracy. This country is no longer a “real” Democracy and hasn’t been for a long time. Albeit, Barr’s interview was pretty jagged and in some cases hard to follow with “Barak Obama” like answers where there is no real answer. I hope he can read this and with some of the issues, solidify his stants. I really dont want to read the tail wagging the dog line too much though I under stand the meaning. It was quite obvious that the interviewer was really trying to put the screws to Barr and try to make him flipflop on his stants of issues. My only recommendation to Bob Barr would be that in every interview where you are asked about your past voting record, make it a point, a real big point to state that you make the biggest mistake in those deisions. You do say that with less heart but to put the mind at ease for those who might look at those interviews and will sit on the fence longer, help them to understand that you are a true Libertarian and will fight for everyone tooth and nail to free them from our current brand of politics. Also, people really need to know the truth about government that the Republicrats arent willing to talk about. Start outing the government that is letting us all down. You will gain the trust of everyone, even those who are looking with pesimistic opinion, to the Libertarian Party for an alternative. I encourage those who read this to confirm that notion.
July 1st, 2008 at 11:41 am
Frank- I’m sure you are very familiar with the term “sheeple”. For your simple minded stupidity I will explain. Sheeple are those who follow a mindless leader in what ever direction with out having a rational thought of their own to seperate themselves from a common place. What im trying to say is that your willing to follow someone who is going to only lead this country and all of little simpleminded followers over a cliff and lead us all into a whole in which we are never to come back. Why not try thinking for yourself for once and stop listening to what the major news media is telling you to believe in. It doesn’t take a genious to see that your not getting anything new with either of the members of the Repulicrats, and understanding that will maybe help you understand what politics is and was meant to be. If you feel the need to keep the course and stay with the same old train wreck then you and the other sheeple and free to follow while the rest of us will stand here in dissapointment with realizing how idiotics the mass public can be.
July 1st, 2008 at 9:51 pm
Why vote for Bob Barr?
Because he has the right positions for the American people at this moment in history…….
Because it’s an opportunity for the first time in a long time to be ‘for’ someone rather than just for the lesser of 2 evils….
Because it helps to build the Libertarian Party into an even more substantial third party in American politics….
Because you’ll feel a lot better as a human being having voted your conscience…….
July 1st, 2008 at 10:49 pm
Dear stay out of my life, I totally agree that the Republican Party abandoned us long ago, and yes there needs to be change. So that gives us two options. #1 we vote for the neo-socialist that the Democrats offer, or #2 we support the Republican Party and change it from within. Am I the only one on this page that has chosen “not” to ignore history?! A third Party candidate in this political climate will only benefit the people that you and I don’t want in office, the Democrats. The people that vote Democrat 98% of the time are “always” going to vote Democrat. The only truly thinking people that can keep this Republic truly free are in the Republican and Libertarian Party. With that being said, the that third party will only attract the people that really “do” care about this country not turning into a socialist Democracy. But you have to face facts and not “ignore” them.
And this to Michael . I don’t think that I called anyone names nor did I degrade any one’s intelligence. You obviously didn’t have any facts, only feelings, to back up “your” argument so you use that tried and true tactic used primarily by the neo-socialist Democrats; you impugn your adversaries intelligence or call them a name instead of presenting “facts”. Shame on you! History has shown that third party ideals are adopted into one of the two primary Parties. Don’t fall into the trap that John Lopez has identified.”long shots can win sometimes”. That is how the Casinos and Horse Tracks stay in business. By luring in people just like Mr Lopez. Study history like our Founding Fathers did and we won’t go wrong, I promise!
July 1st, 2008 at 11:01 pm
Oh I forgot. DJ you are the one following the other lemmings. ie Stephen, Laurie, James R. , John Campbell and Michael. I know I missed some but you know who you are. Please, for the sake of this country that we all hold so near and dear, study this country’s history as well as just history period like our Founding Fathers did and we won’t fail. I promise. I’ve seen that it has happened before. You and I are all living proof!
July 2nd, 2008 at 1:07 am
Dear Michael, “If knowledge can create problems, it is not through ignorance that we can solve them.” Isaac Asimov (1920 - 1992) Oh yea, I think you fall into a “hole” and you speak a “whole” lot of nonsense. Now to what I needed to add. “Sheeple are those who follow a mindless leader in what ever direction with out having a rational thought of their own to seperate themselves from a common place.” (There are two “a’s” in separate) Just so you’ll know. Now, You just described yourself with that diatribe. Ignorance is what is dangerous for us at this time. Ignoring history just because you have grand ideas does nothing to the status quo. “Ignorance, the root and the stem of every evil.” Plato (427 BC - 347 BC) Michael, ignoring what has happened many, many , many times before won’t change it from happening again. Our Founding Fathers were great studies of history as we should also be They knew that history repeats itself if you didn’t learn anything form the times it had happened before. History shows us that third party ideas are adopted by one or the other of the ruling parties. Since we know that has happened over and over again, to think that just because you say “see I’m mad so I’ll vote for this guy that doesn’t have a snowballs chance in hell of winning.” that it won’t happen or can’t happen now is just plan wrong. I’m not just basing this on feelings like you and some of the others are. I’m getting my information from history and then after studying that, I make my decision. Now I’m through. If you can’t give at least some of my argument credit and then use “facts” derived from past experience to shoot down my ideas the there is nothing else I can do. I suppose after supporting this third party with your vote, then just as now, you’ll ignore the fact that because you voted the way you did, the people that we needed to keep out of office, got in! By then loosing the ignorance will have come to late.
July 2nd, 2008 at 1:13 am
That should have been “from” instead of “form” and “plane” instead of plan. Sometimes I fat finger this wireless keyboard and don’t “look up” to see that I “screwed up”.
July 2nd, 2008 at 4:52 am
Frank: What you don’t seem to understand is that we believe both of the available options constitute “the people that we [need] to keep out of office.”
While you speak of history, what of George Washington? I don’t believe he misspoke when he said: “The common and continual mischiefs of the spirit of party are sufficient to make it the interest and duty of a wise people to discourage and restrain it.”
This was a flowery way of saying “vote based on what you truly believe in, and not based on a candidate’s party affiliation.” To do otherwise is to invite the parties to take advantage of their supporters every election cycle, and to ensure that said supporters get what they deserve every single time. Do you really think the prevalence of “lesser of two evils” options is a mere happenstance? It’s a trap that many people are knowingly, willingly, and yet blindly strolling right into. It’s time for everyone to wake up.
I’m a life-long Libertarian, and John McCain does not represent my values. The same can be said for essentially everyone here, and the belief that every vote here would otherwise go to John McCain is presumptuous. Just because some of those here are “disaffected Republicans” does not equate them with “wayward John McCain voters.” There are also many Libertarians, Democrats, and Independent/Undecided/Non-Voters here that are genuinely interested in Bob Barr’s candidacy. It’s an issue of policy affiliation, not party affiliation.
The same rules apply for me as well. Regardless of the Libertarian label; if the Libertarian candidate wasn’t a candidate I could live with I’d look elsewhere. If I didn’t find a good candidate that reflected at least some of my views I’d be unable to conscientiously cast my vote. It’s simple, and it’s how things are supposed to work.
It should be noted that smaller parties have to expend considerable resources on maintaining or re-establishing ballot access primarily because of this widespread infatuation with treating the important decision of electing our nation’s Executive like its the Super Bowl. If more voters were courageous enough to express their views at the ballot box the smaller parties would be larger parties; and the D’s and R’s would be forced to either “lead, follow, or get out of the way.” Your acquiescence to the duopoly on Election Day has no such force behind it. It is a vote for the two-party system, a vote for each and every itemized policy of the candidate in question, and a vote for the perpetuation of this corrupt and dysfunctional system of government we’ve somehow foisted upon ourselves over the course of the past several generations. It is shameful, and wholly un-American. For all the talk of the Founding Fathers; they would find this all to be highly disgraceful, and would be highly disgusted with us for throwing away so lightly what they struggled so hard to achieve.
July 2nd, 2008 at 5:59 am
While I agree with Libertarian policy, I find that perhaps it is a bit naive. The major assumption is that people are moral, literate, and willing to fend for themselves. Based on my 63 years of experience, while I would like it to be true, it is not. Half the people of the country do not vote. Those that do are either hoping for something to put in their pockets. America is not what it was during the civil war against England. I am saddened that the American public is made up of of morons hoping to be saved by ‘big brother. Saved, of course, by the able persons that make the country far better than it would otherwise be.
July 2nd, 2008 at 9:14 am
DJ I totally agree with only this caveat. There is so much at stake with especially the Supreme Court, we as a free people must think of the future and not our willingness to try and prove a point. The last two very important cases with their 5-4 rulings is proof that we are standing on shaky ground here. If this election wasn’t on the eve of the retiring of the Judges that legislate instead of interpret, I’d be in lock step with you. The problem we have in this particular election is that the most pro-socialist, “government must do everything for you” and thus remove more liberties, is Barak Obama. This guy, I feel, would do way more damage to our Republic than Jimmy Cater did. Our Nation is still paying for the foreign policy of Carter. One could easily deduce that Carter was a contributing factor in this problem we’re having in the Middle East. We owe our children and their children a more stable country. The Supreme Court’s decisions affect us for generations. We have to be realistic and fight to change it from within, at least in this Presidential election. In the way our whole system was designed, Please understand that I agree that the Republican Party screwed us, but I also think that they are getting the message. The President and the foreign policy that he brings with him, along with the his picking candidates for the Supreme Court, make this one especially important. And I’m not willing to throw my vote away just so I can say “see there!”. This is only because I see a very dangerous man in Barak Obama. Although I will say this. It has been said that Eisenhower remarked after his presidency that he had made only two mistakes, and both of them were on the Supreme Court! Barak Obama should give us pause. This election may will be very close and this is not the time or place to try and prove our point. Let’s get through this one and see what happens first. I. just like many here, agree with Bob way more than I agree with McCain but that doesn’t change the fact that this will be a close one at best, and the price of my “proving my point” would be Obama in the White House. That my friends, is not a price that I am willing to pay. Not just for me but for what it will leave for my children’s children.
July 2nd, 2008 at 9:21 am
Frank: I appreciated you taking the time to explain your view.
My historical perspective is simply different.
I don’t want to repeat the mistakes of the past - especially believing that change can come from within either one of the 2 major parties.
My experience tells me those in power are simply too invested to make any meaningful change - even those well intentioned.
I believe this time change will have to come from the outside - from people who aren’t interested in just re-arranging a few things (which is all the Republican party will ever do). - but from those who want fundamental change in the way we do business.
I see the excitement generated by Ron Paul and his supporters. I see the unhappiness with the choices available to life long Democrats and Republicans. And ralph Nadar doesn’t provide a real choice.
Bob Barr does provide a choice.
I think there’s an opportunity to grow this Party as never before……….and we shouldn’t let this slip through our fingers. I hope to spend every moment between now and Nov helping everyone I know see that there really is a choice to be had.
I believe DJ is right. We will never see change if we simply choose every four years between two candidates whose positions are opposed to our beliefs.
I also don’t think we should overlook the impact on local and state politics. Change will come from the outside and from the bottom up. That I know.
July 2nd, 2008 at 9:38 am
jim: I hate to respond by paraphrasing your comment, but it’s fertile ground for doing so. I’m very glad you agree with Libertarian policy, and it goes to show that your experience has served you well.
I don’t see the major assumption of Libertarian policy being that people are moral, literate, and willing to fend for themselves. I see the major assumption of Libertarian policy being that people are misguided, failed by the education system, and conditioned to believe that government is the only appropriate tool for solving a wide variety of their problems. Libertarian policies are intended precisely to resolve these issues, and then some.
The most appropriate definition of “naive” to use in the context of this discussion is “deficient in worldly wisdom or informed judgment.”
Clearly, then, “naive” just does not apply to Libertarian policy. If it did you wouldn’t agree with it after 63 years. Although I do understand your disillusionment considering you’ve witnessed a significant portion of the transformation of this country during the span of your life.
I think where “naive” truly does apply is in reference to the general public. They truly are “deficient in worldly wisdom or informed judgment”; especially when and where it comes to elections. The media bombards them with the suggestion that there are ultimately only two choices that matter. Splashy graphics fly up showing the D and R candidates side-by-side, or their mascots in the same configuration. “Informative” election websites tend to take a similar approach as 3/4 of the page is consumed by the horse race while other viable candidates are relegated to a sidebar, or worse; to a separate and relatively hard-to-find section. The media attention alternative candidates muster is both sporadic and disproportionate; based more on name recognition and past media access than it is actual grassroots support and ballot access. Libertarian candidates tend to spend their time answering questions about why they’re running when they know they can’t win, or what sort of impact they’ll have on other participants in the race; rather than receiving a degree of respect that befits an active and truly nationwide political party. There may be exceptions, but that’s the rule. After the interview is over a splashy split-screen undoubtedly leaps into view to make sure we remember those two choices that matter; just prior to a segue into the latest D-vs-R or R-vs-D news. So unless someone happens to be watching at the time of the interview (and happens to not be particularly susceptible to the psychological programming that’s flooding their senses before, during, and after it), or unless someone catches an obscure newspaper article or an obscure section of an election website; their chances of being aware of the available alternatives are drastically diminished. This is all assuming they have time to inform themselves while they’re working hard to eke out a living in a struggling economy, and when they’re not trying to enjoy themselves in whatever free time they do have by taking part in the wealth of diversions offered to them at every turn. Of those that do come across us we lose some to misconceptions about our positions or preconceived notions based on past (often rather personal) interaction with our philosophy and/or some of our more colorful representatives.
Clearly there’s quite an uphill battle. Three words: Sheer. Vertical. Cliff.
It’s worth it though. We’re not interested in just giving up on this country. The stakes are just too high. As I said in my last entry; the Founding Fathers would be highly disgusted with the American public for throwing away so lightly what they struggled so hard to achieve. Many are willing to throw it all away (and many aren’t even aware that they’re doing so), but I’d like to think we Libertarians are trying very hard to salvage and restore this nation–this concept of Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness–for ourselves and our posterity.
The only way to combat the naivete that is pushing our nation ever-closer to the point of no return is to struggle against its primary symptom; the pervasive lack of informed judgment among the people. To present our alternatives and educate the public about our policies with hope that one day–preferably sooner rather than later–we can begin to tend to our nation’s wounds.
July 2nd, 2008 at 10:13 am
Frank: I appreciate the very constructive tone in your words, and am glad you found the same in mine.
I shed tears this very moment for my country. I’m not a particularly emotional person; but the sum total of the present dilemma is nothing short of overwhelming.for those of us that see things in terms far more tangible, far-reaching, and understanding than could ever be represented by cold and abstract statistics, balance sheets, and vote totals.
My only response to the substance of what you said comes in four parts:
1. Bush’s appointees had some surprises in store for him, and perhaps a similar scenario could play out for the next president as well.
2. I have little faith that there would be any fundamental difference between the type of person McCain would appoint and the type of person Obama would appoint. As they each straddle the fence and gravitate toward the center their self-contradictory policies become muddled, and it becomes unclear what each truly believes. Their only constant is inconsistency.
3. The Supreme Court does not act arbitrarily. A case must exist, have standing, advance to the Supreme Court, and be accepted for review before their involvement even becomes a factor. There are many random elements involved in this process.
4. If your state is a close match-up, Frank, vote your mind; if your state is solidly in one camp or the other, Frank, vote your heart; if Barr manages to break through to the electorate, Frank, grab the torch of freedom and run side-by-side with us across the finish line.
July 2nd, 2008 at 12:39 pm
To Frank…you have a point, to a point, I based my opinion on feeling of frustration because I hear the same **** from too many people day in, day out. I know, as I have always known (and even called people out on doing the same to me) that “name calling” is no way to conduct a debate on the issues. However, when you storm into a comment block telling us that we should be hit with the hickory stick for believing that a change is in order showed me that you we the ignorant one. We cannot be limited because of people who think like you, that to me is ignorance in the grandest scale. So in that sense, calling you part of a group of sheeple was justified in my opinion but challenging your intelligence…my bad, I should know better than that.
Now on to the other moments you felt you need to spend on me, Ignorance is what is keeping us tied into the same political system over and over again. In your sense, to take insult because Bob Barr is running and will probably cost McCain the election, is pretty ridiculous. Are we supposed to, as humans, keep treating ourselves like lab rats and continuously prod ourselves with the same political serigne. Not me, I really don’t find any benefit to stick with the status quo and if people stop being “ignorant” as you would put it and maybe start doing some digging themselves, then perhaps we would have better outcomes that favor everyone, not the majority ruling the minority. That is the real goal here is to completely reform a Republic where everyone has the same laws and the maximum amount of freedoms…bottom line. Therefore we can get off the welfare state and allow people, scratch that, force people to stop depending on other people like government, to carry them through life.
You said in your rebuttal to me earlier that I shouldn’t fall into a trap John Lopez described as “long shot can win sometimes”. This isn’t a casino nor a horse race, this is our lives that we are taking so much pride in here and when politics are run by the banking industry and the Council of Foreign Affairs (that your McCain is a member of), the outcome for the people is pretty grim. Try reading into those topics and tell me that staying the course is the best for everyone. to end with a quote since people like to do that these days… I like the one buy jefferson that says “A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine”. What ever happened to having a 100%
July 2nd, 2008 at 2:29 pm
Dear DJ. You and I are looking for the same thing. But…shoulda. coulda, woulda, If ifs and buts were candy and nuts…..you know the rest. Remember what I said about Casinos and Horse Tracks. And my friend Michael………blaming your impugning someone’s intelligence on frustration, and the fact that I didn’t say anything about taking a “hickory stick” to you or any other poster means you jumped to emotion and that is wrong. That sort of “excuse” has been used by minorities to explain why they “misbehave”.. That doesn’t fly with me and making excuses for the behavior instead of apologizing is further proof you were lacking facts in the debate so you turned “that” frustration into name calling and impugning a person’s intelligence. You sound as if your running on “feelings” instead of facts for your argument. My advice; stick to facts. Just before my comment, DJ wrote to Bob saying that Bob impressed him. To which I said he “doesn’t impress me” because of the stakes that are involved this coming election. Don’t take that the wrong way. I agree with Bob on most everything he is standing for, but where was he while in Congress?! That is the reason I said he needed a stick taken to his butt because of the consequences of dividing us so the Democrats can conquer us. I see the socialist threat to our nation a far bigger problem for us.(Respectfully speaking) And to my friend Laurie, you are still ignoring history. You’re feelings of “this party growing” in this day and time ( I feel) is a pipe dream. If we were living 150 years ago, I’d say you were right. But society changes and evolves and sadly that isn’t possible with a population of “dumbed down” citizens. To think otherwise would be naive. To change that little fact will take a few generations so we must work in the present. Perot only started this thing because of his dislike (hatred) of Bush 41. To state other wise is to ignore that Perot baled as soon as he accomplished what he set out to do; to sabotage Bush. It is with this in mind that I am angered at Bob because this will only divide us and that will be more than enough to conquer us. Bob (and us) should be putting pressure on the Republicans to “grow a spine” and call a spade a spade when it comes to the neo-socialist Democrats. That (I Feel) would be where Bob would be more effective, that’s all. My family sacrificed blood and property to make Liberty possible for me. And all I’m doing is trying to make sure those sacrifices weren’t in vane. Bob should have come out alot sooner. Now is not the right time.
July 2nd, 2008 at 6:29 pm
“We must never allow ourselves to accept that what is will remain and what might have been was an impossibility.” - Me
July 2nd, 2008 at 7:18 pm
Frank: I like your tenacity, The truth is I have done all of my research on both McCain and Barak Obama, and if a brief power outage at my house didn’t erase every well documented fact that I had on McCain, I would have more for you to read. so I guess I’ll start over. (damn it)
Please re-read what I had written before where I said I was wrong about my approach to you, and what pissed me off was you saying, and I quote, “You don’t impress me worth a damn! You know that we (Republicans) stand a slim chance of winning anyway, and here you are trying to muddy up the water for John McCain! You need a stick taken to your *** and I don’t mean a switch! A big, thick Hickory stick!”
How are we supposed to take that and not fire back. then you seemed to back peddle and re-direct the meaning of what you said with things you never said in your first comment. Your argument to me is weak.
Well since I have nothing better to do: here are those fact that you were looking for.
Fact: John McCain voted against establishing a national holiday in honor of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. Now he says his position has “evolved,” yet he’s continued to oppose key civil rights laws.
Fact:According to Bloomberg News, McCain is more hawkish than Bush on Iraq, Russia and China. Conservative columnist Pat Buchanan says McCain “will make Cheney look like Gandhi.”
Fact:His reputation is built on his opposition to torture, but McCain voted against a bill to ban waterboarding, and then applauded President Bush for vetoing that ban.
Fact:McCain opposes a woman’s right to choose. He said, “I do not support Roe versus Wade. It should be overturned.”
Fact:He’s one of the richest people in a Senate filled with millionaires. The Associated Press reports he and his wife own at least eight homes! Yet McCain says the solution to the housing crisis is for people facing foreclosure to get a “second job” and skip their vacations. *******, I work two job and still don’t have 8 houses.
Fact:Many of McCain’s fellow Republican senators say he’s too reckless to be commander in chief. One Republican senator said: “The thought of his being president sends a cold chill down my spine. He’s erratic. He’s hotheaded. He loses his temper and he worries me.”
Fact:McCain talks a lot about taking on special interests, but his campaign manager and top advisers are actually lobbyists. The government watchdog group Public Citizen says McCain has 59 lobbyists raising money for his campaign, more than any of the other presidential candidates
Fact:McCain has sought closer ties to the extreme religious right in recent years. The pastor McCain calls his “spiritual guide,” Rod Parsley, believes America’s founding mission is to destroy Islam, which he calls a “false religion.” McCain sought the political support of right-wing preacher John Hagee, who believes Hurricane Katrina was God’s punishment for *** rights and called the Catholic Church “the Antichrist” and a “false cult.”
Fact:He positions himself as pro-environment, but he scored a 0—yes, zero—from the League of Conservation Voters last year.10
Fact: He supports Bush’s FISA bill which allows the government to spy on it’s citizens…that’s not good
Fact: McCain-Fiengold is a enemy of free speech on political issues unless they are of the conservative nature and pro Bush. that’s really not good. What’s next?
Fact: McCain want to keep troop spread thin fighting a war on terror that will never end since there is no real enemy. Opposes removing troops from Iraq and supports a pre-emptive strike on Iran. I guess the United States should have no problem since the Federal Reserve can go ahead and print money out of thin air. No Wonder why our dollar is only really worth 4 cents. it’s not even worth the paper it’s printed on.
I’ll let you go ahead and chew on that for a while and if your interested in the facts about Barak Obama I can get you that list as well. I know there are more on McCain but I’m getting tired of this ****.
July 2nd, 2008 at 8:09 pm
good job DJ, well spoken
July 2nd, 2008 at 11:20 pm
“Fact: John McCain voted against establishing a national holiday in honor of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. Now he says his position has “evolved,” yet he’s continued to oppose key civil rights laws.” I’ll just say that when that was going on he wanted the Senate to make it a Civil Rights day to honor “all” those civil rights leaders like the Latino ones in his part of the world. The rest is right. I didn’t like him in the Senate because he got in bed with the Democrats way to many times. But I still think that we need to win the White House and keep it out of the hands of Obama. I see him as a dangerous man and with both houses controlled by his neo-socialist party, there will be no end to the ruin they will put on our Republic. I’m just being pragmatic I guess. So in the words of the kids these days “that’s just the way I roll”. All I can say is God bless you all and our beloved Republic. I still think that the fight can be taken to the Party instead of giving the White House to the socialist. If Bob had come out early, who knows. But I still think that now is not the time. I’m of the mind that you pick your battles and I don’t see this one as one we can win.
July 3rd, 2008 at 7:11 am
Mr. Boone, I agree with you, a Obama administration scares the hell out of me. However, this is where people like you and me and all of the other people who read these words have to be the ones to say “enough is enough”. This is OUR country and if we want it bad enough then we have to take it back. People will vote the status quo because they dont know any better. In all honesty, if someone came to you and said “I want to end your illegal taxation” or “I want to get government completely out of your life”, It would be hard not to listen. Glann Beck said that the heart of EVERY American is a Libertarian. This message is just not getting to enough people. And the ones who are against it are the one who have their hand in the government pocket and need their handouts. We have 4 months and I know that collectivly We can make a huge impact and we need to start with the Obama supporters to level the playing field three ways. It’s funny, everyone I talk to about the Libertarian Party all say the same thing…”it sounds great, but he has no chance of winning” to that I say, If everyone who said that voted Libertarian, Bob Barr would win in a landslide victory. It’s simple, there is no lesser of two evils, there is only two evils.
July 3rd, 2008 at 9:30 am
Michael I believe you are a wise man but we just see the battlefield from different perspectives.
July 3rd, 2008 at 9:39 am
You have made this a lot of fun frank, but we can agree to disagree, I just dont like it when people have a defeated attitude. Be positive and positive things will happen. We need to embrase that. It was good arguing with you. click on my name and check out my website, there are good things on there you might like.
July 3rd, 2008 at 11:24 am
Watch this video:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3218585954111617501
July 3rd, 2008 at 6:00 pm
Michael don’t ever assume that I have a “defeated attitude”. I’m choosing to fight for the same thing as you (I think!?) but on a different battlefield. Where as you say “Be positive and positive things will happen” when history and the odds aren’t in your favor I say that I don’t like it when people think of themselves as the Spartans did at the Battle at the Thermopylae! The odds were against them, they knew it, but rather than retreat to fight another day, they fought and died (wasted their vote.) I admire your fortitude but I see that being pragmatic (keeping Obama out of the White House) for me, that is the battle that “has to be won right now” and then I will worry about getting the Republican Party back on track (like the Contract with America days) or standing with you to grow the Libertarian Party up to a formidable foe. God Bless you Michael. We will talk some more of that I am sure. Always remember me by this statement. “Just like if I disagree with my Parents. That doesn’t mean that I love them any less or that I discount their opinion”. I am heading to your site for a while and I’ll let you know what I glean from your postings. LOL
July 3rd, 2008 at 6:12 pm
An idealist is one who, on noticing that a rose smells better than a cabbage, concludes that it will also make better soup.
H. L. Mencken (1880 - 1956)