The Human Cost of National Healthcare Plans
May 7th, 2008 by Stephen GordonFor those of you considering voting for one of the Democratic Party presidential candidates, perhaps this article from the United Kingdom’s Daily Mail will provide a mental image of how medical care in the United States may well look under their watch.
A woman of 61 was refused a routine heart operation by a hard-up NHS trust for being too old.
Dorothy Simpson suffers from an irregular heartbeat and is at increased risk of a stroke. But health chiefs refused to allow the procedure which was recommended by her specialist.
The school secretary was stunned by the ruling.
“I can’t believe that at 61 I’m too old for this operation,” she said.
“A friend has had exactly the same thing done and it has changed his life.
“I feel as though I’ve been put out to grass and surely deserve better than this.” …
…Her consultant’s application for Mrs Simpson to have the operation was rejected in December.
The North Yorkshire and York Primary Care Trust is said to have cited her age as one of the reasons for refusal.
Fortunately, the bureaucrats eventually stepped down after this particular case received scrutiny from the media. Unfortunately, the press won’t be reporting on each and every case of medical care being denied to patients.
I’m not sure how much government values a 61-year-old lady, but the amount is certainly less than £5,000.
“Rationed health care and older patients — literally — left to die? That’s universal health care in action,” wrote Donny Ferguson. “Here’s a better idea. Free up the health care market, which drives down prices and expands choices for patients.”
Here’s Bob Barr’s view on returning health care decisions and economics back to the people and to the doctors:
May 8th, 2008 at 9:40 am
Amen! I’m not that old, at least in my own mind. I was born in the early 50’s and was delivered at home BY A MEDICAL DOCTOR and cost my parents only $50. My younger brother also came into the world in the same manner. My father was a poor coal miner and my mother was a homemaker. They had no health insurance or medical card as they called it because of “that republican in the white house.” It appears to me that the rising cost of health care is three fold. Government involvement, Medicare, Medicaid, and state run medical programs, dictating how much a doctor can charge the government for his services. Private health insurance companies raising premiums and deductibles because of doctors trying to make up for their loses by charging those with insurance more and the tort lawyers beating the bushes for doctors to sue, in order to enrich themselves further. John Edwards, comes to mind. I totally agree, the government needs to get out of the heath care business, allow tax payers to contribute a large chunk of before tax income into a tax free health savings account that is portable, inheritable, and never expires. Socialism and communism never works, and won’t work here.
May 8th, 2008 at 4:41 pm
Would Ron Paul make a VP candidate???
May 8th, 2008 at 6:26 pm
Please Run… I have no health care ins.. But I do not want Gov. to run the health care… Please Bob Barr Run… I am behind you 100%… I am still a Ron Paul supporter But you have the message of libarty also Please Run… I think you “if” you win you could fix this country Please Run…
Please go check out my web site at
http://lisaleeds2008.com
Lisa Leeds
Candidate in 08
State House Dist. 58 TN
Vice Chair
Libertarian Party Nashville,TN
May 8th, 2008 at 6:51 pm
Here’s another idea too…stop taking care of everyone here illegally.
May 9th, 2008 at 11:09 am
Lisa,
I don’t think you should be running for any kind of office if you can’t spell “Liberty” correctly…you sound fairly un-intelligent(I guess you would fit right in with most elected officials then)
May 12th, 2008 at 10:15 am
An insurance program that is taken out of every working American’s check would do wonders to insure every American gets health care. I pay 6% of my salary per year for a pretty bad insurance plan ($1000/2000 deductible with a $25/copay on doctor’s visits). There are a lot of people that don’t pay any insurance but in Illinois are given a state insurance card that covers all their expenses with tax money.
Nice isn’t it? Because I make what I make, I have to pay for my health care and it ain’t cheap. But if I made a lot less, I could get free (taxpayer supported) heath care. So why not make a national health care system where ever working American gets taxed 6 - 10% for health care and then when they need medical help, they get it without the worries of those bills pouring in?
May 12th, 2008 at 12:20 pm
Go Bob Go…Run Bob Run…
You got my vote. You may not be “perect” in some peoples minds, but we just have to start somewhere to take our country back.
May 12th, 2008 at 1:16 pm
Thank you for your decision to attempt to prevent the wave of socialism that is coming our way. I am a participating provider in the Medicare program. I also participate with several private insurance plans. I can not imagine that anyone involved in the field of health care would support expansion of government control of benefits. Medicare is miserable. Medicare routinely denies payment for services as “not medically necessary” without any explanation or reasonable justification. The appeals process is a joke. If a provider begins the long, inefficient, and confusing appeals process, his efforts are extremely unlikely to produce positive results. Medicare is the only entity I know of where a contract is signed, must be adheared to by one party (the purchaser), and if they feel like it, might be adheared to by the other party (Medicare). Govenment should be removed from all aspects of health care.
Run hard Mr. Barr, perhaps the American people will see that true Freedom is more than a bumper sticker.
May 12th, 2008 at 1:27 pm
Lisa Leeds, please spell “liberty” correctly, you are making the rest of the Libertarians look stupid.
May 12th, 2008 at 1:46 pm
I love your tie!
I agree with you on your healthcare plan, some of your issues don’t exactly clang well with me but I’d much prefer you to that pompous loud-mouth Wayne Allyn Root. Run Mr. Barr, I’m a Ron Paul supporter, but sooner or later, the Libertarians are going to need a candidate that isn’t a buffoon.
May 12th, 2008 at 8:03 pm
Thank you for finally saying something! God bless you.
May 12th, 2008 at 8:52 pm
Yes, because the standard of care she would get in the US without insurance would be so much better.
May 12th, 2008 at 9:43 pm
you are so right !that we have enough beaurocracy in health care, Take this new audit by medicare, that cost the goverment more than a billion dollars, and audits hospitals and doctors ,imposing tons of paper work in addition to already existing.Insurance companies rising premiums, lawers are on the heels of every provider, Prescription drugs are unreasonably expensive ,and going higher,FDA is totally corrupted body,frivolous law suits make drugs companies increase prices,Please, go and God help you.
May 12th, 2008 at 9:59 pm
Both Parties DON’T GET IT. Bloated Government that prints up the dollars it spends wildly devalue all worked for dollars in the economy.
Government IS TOO BIG NOW. It is spending the next generations money now. They have no right to do that.
They already robbed the money people sent in trusting them for Social Security and that dark cloud will hang over the next generation and probably doom any hope for a life in the process. Those guilty of this violation of trust that was done BEHIND OUR BACKS will have long since left office or passed on. The American People have a claim on their Estates for sure. Crooks should not profit by ill gotten gains.
We can do with the Game & Fish also. That is one destructive organization. Not only do they block the public from enjoyment of the outdoors but they stock Class A-1 predator Alligators that eat children and adults. 3 adults in one week in Florida got eaten. The big problem is that they selectively serve people. Judges and politicians and themselves block all others from their heritage. They ignore the blockage of our creeks by loggers and land owners to prevent the public using boats for recreation. Their “SURVEYS” are just a way to get fish for political fish fries. For every fish they net 3 or 4 more fish spin around and go to the bottom dead. So, that info plus the lying they do and the harrassment they do and the damage they do to children having wholesome experiences growing up add up to a bureaucracy we can do without. It is the 9th Inning BUT I would rather vote for you and lose than vote for someone who has not got a clue what the American people want. We work hard, we understand the danger of too much credit, and we resent being obligated by a Government that prints up money devaluing all dollars we need to live.
May 12th, 2008 at 10:54 pm
Finally someone to represent the true conservative viewpoint! Thank God now I can vote!!! Go get ‘em Bob!!!
May 13th, 2008 at 12:20 am
What does “free up” mean exactly?
I’m not much in favor of “universal” methods as they stand now in other countries, but I think it’s do-able if you can remove the greed by all invlolved, and still keep quality high.
McCain has the worst idea for working people. Go figure.
I must say though, our kind of healthcare has been around a long long time. Some one spoke they cost $50 to be born. So what happened? What changed? this is what we the people must know and have lost this infromation over time. Politicians COUNT on this!
As for Ron Paul supporters…he had good idea’s except the religous stuff. We can’t afford that in Government either!
May 13th, 2008 at 12:25 am
Thank you for fighting against “Single Payer” medicine. Americans will see a lot more of what government medicine means when I finish my movie “Sick and Sicker”. It’s half-way there! The good news: there is a quiet revolution underway that will decisively solve the health care crisis. Let’s both shed light on it before it gets destroyed by the government-medicine crowd. Oh, and tell everyone to read Atlas Shrugged!
May 13th, 2008 at 12:25 am
Well, this interesting take on it. This is my biggest issue this election. I am 28 years old and in good health. Heres my problem, it seems like every year at work we get a 50 cent or so raise BUT then health insurance gets jacked up, its discouraging, I get the cheap PPo insurance but the catch is you have to pay 400$ into before it starts working, meaning if I want a doctor check up I have to pay 125$ out of pocket and get tests I know I do not need. The prescription coverage at work is a joke too, Seems to me we need to open up the market on drugs, for example, If I can get Nexium from Canada much cheaper then here in the US, I should be allowed to do so. I am scared to death that if I get very sick that I will not get the care I need and I do not what some elected offcial telling me what I need and what I don’t.
If you do get your partys nomination I will vote for you over the major 2.
May 13th, 2008 at 2:07 am
How is it that countries such as Canada and Cuba have excellent state health care, paid for by taxes, and they are living an average of threey ears longer than Americans? I have been to Canada many times. It is cleaner, more prosperous, and the people live better quality of lives than Americans. I would gladly pay more taxes for accountable, efficient healthcare that didn’t involve selling a limb to pay my doctor. Giving me the old song and dance about how “government dictates what a doctor can can charge” **** is getting old. I don’t feel sympathy for any greedy doctor. They are part of the problem. Most of them are foreigners anyway, so what’s with the “love fest” pity party for doctors? They are in on the scam with the insurance companies and Dubya. I love all you right-wing racist crackers who wanna talk about “liberty”. I’m a white boy, but I am not down with a liberal-hater like Barr. He should go back to Georgia where weird old white men like himself belong. What was the last office he held, president of his Star Trek fan chapter? Please… stop wasting our time and your money supporting someone like this. This guy has about as much chance of winning as David Duke.
May 13th, 2008 at 7:46 am
I am from Canada, which has government health care, in fact it is illegal to purchase private health insurance for coverage provided by a physician. there are quite long waiting lists, and a shortage of specialists. To get an appointment with a neurologist is about 3 months.
May 13th, 2008 at 10:03 am
I agree with the basics of getting the government out of healthcare and I agree with my physicians making the decisions about care. However, currently my health insurance provider denies and overules decision made by my doctor- most commonly about prescription drugs. How will the governments (Federal and State) getting out of healthcare force insurance companies to abide by the decisions of doctors and their patients?
May 13th, 2008 at 10:18 am
The problem is insurance and insurance companies. They are middle men and they suck away 30% of our healthcare spending that should be going to actually providing healthcare services. The solution is to expand Medicare to everyone. Medicare spends only 4% on administration. Private for-profit insurers spend 18-30% on administration. This is about 350 Billion wasted every year. More than enough to cover everyone. These are the facts and you crack-pot anti-government ideology doesn’t change it. The only reason we don’t have this system today is because unions and greedy doctors derailed the effort back when it was proposed. There are so things the government can do more efficiently than a bunch of wasteful private entities competing against each other. Providing health INSURANCE is one of them. And if you are too stupid to see the difference between the government providing insurance (social insurance) versus “socialized medicine” or government-controlled medicine you are an idiot. Medicare didn’t kill medicine and it won’t kill medicine to make everyone eligible. Ask a doctor or a hospital who they’d rather deal with Medicare or UnitedHealthcare, Cigna or Aetna.. Answer: Medicare.
May 13th, 2008 at 10:43 am
Chris,
You should really take a look at this article, though I’m sure you’d rather not read anything that contradicts your your statements.
http://www.city-journal.org/html/17_3_canadian_healthcare.html
When you factor out accidental deaths and homocide, Americans live longer than people of any other Western Nation. Govt controlled healthcare is ineffecient at best and deadly at worst. That is why the Canadian Govt. is not only turning a blind eye on “illegal” private health providers but outsourcing patient care to them in recent years to reduce abissmal waiting times for many tests and procedures.
Govt. healthcare is neither accountable or effecient. The private sector can provide better care more effeciently than any Govt. program. As far as accountability, you, I and everyone else can hold a private company accountable by choosing not to buy their product or sservice. If a company provides poor products or servicesand loses its clients, it will cease to exist. If the Govt. provides poor products and services, they say they need more tax dollars to fix the problem and take those dollars from us by force.
Put the kool-aid down and step away from the cup.
May 13th, 2008 at 10:55 am
I am considering supporting you, Mr. Barr, but need to hear more. I am not happy with your stance on healthcare. No national healthcare system? Fine. I’m OK with that if you can figure out a way for somebody like myself (who has no insurance) to afford surgery if it’s needed. You think getting rid of government regulation is going to make heart surgery prices come down to affordable levels for me? Please explain how this will occur. Now, if you have a plan to make sure health insurance companies don’t exclude people because of pre-existing conditions and you have a plan to limit how much they can charge for premiums, then I’ll listen. But it seems like you have no such plan. You rail against the government plans but don’t offer anything as an alternative. Free market will not take care of people without insurance when it comes to big ticket items like surgeries. Instead of totally rejecting national healthcare, why not try coming up with something that’s in the middle? Your ideas offer no hope for people without insurance. I’m all for less government, but in this case, the people need somebody to stand up to the bullies, aka the insurance companies.
May 13th, 2008 at 12:26 pm
Our country is in the biggest mess since the Civil War = only we aren’t fighting it here - yet. We desperately need people to come together because of our differences and find some kind of consensus on how to move forward. Certainly the infusion of insurance money into the system has raised costs (not just from government but from the private sector as well) and it will cost even more to straighten things out. Ironically it will take some type of government action to undo whatever unintended effects previous government actions have created. No easy answers here. Thanks Bob for joining the conversation. The issue here is not ‘can Bob win the election’ but can his views be part of our national conversation. I certainly hope so.
May 13th, 2008 at 1:23 pm
I lived most of my life in the U.K. but now live here in the States. I work in the health-care setting, and know, firsthand, the travesties that can arise when people have to depend on insurance companies to make decisions about their health-care. Why don’t you tell a story about someone who is denied heart surgery because they can’t afford insurance, or don’t qualify for affordable insurance because of a pre-exisiting illness? Or the stories about families losing their homes and going bankrupt because their child is diagnosed with cancer? The national health service does work. It may not be perfect, nor always fast, but it is the only thing that comes close to working. As soon as health-care becomes about making a profit, we become morally bankrupt.
May 13th, 2008 at 6:22 pm
I am an RN and am frightened by the changes I see in the medical community. Most Americans do not see the dangers of a national health care system. We do not have the physicians now to deliver care as needed, where will they be when all freedom of choice is taken over by the government and patients have to meet government standards for their care, ie as the medicare programs is now. Try admitting a medicare patient that does not meet very strict guidilines for admission. Even now there are programs for oncology physicians to learn to tell patients that they do not qualify for chemo, guidelines on who will get treated in the event for severe flu outbreaks ect.
Patients are being discharged earlier and earlier from the hospital, many times with no one to take care of them at home. Home health nurses are caring for patients too sick to leave the hospital and can follow those patients for a short time.
I just returned from Ireland and had first hand experience with their National Health System. It can take up to one year to see a specialist, many times that is too late. The pharmacies are being told that the NIS will cut the reimbursment for medication 8.2 %, that does not cover the cost of the medication forcing many of the small pharmacies to close.
Socialized medicine is not the answer and will never work in a country the size of our United States. Not enough providers.
May 13th, 2008 at 8:46 pm
Where has Suzannah been ? Health Care IS a for profit business and we are morally bankrupt. Government run Health Insurance does not work. What our government needs to do is go after these large insurance companies who do not pay their claims or refuse healthcare to one of their insured. We as the insured pay our high premiums from our pay, we do not get the option to tell the insurance company that I’m a little short this week I will make up my premiums the next time I get paid, but yet we allow these insurance companies to do this to us. If your attending Physician (who almost all the time is picked from the insurance companies prefered provider list) states that the medical treatment that you require is medically necessary Then IT IS medically necessary period. The only involvement our government should have with health care is going after these crooked Insurance companies.
Anyone who has ever had to deal with Medicare knows what a joke it is. Nothing but a run around transfered to five different people who supposably know what they are talking about and all five give you a different answer non of which are correct. Government run Health Insurance it’s laughable.
May 14th, 2008 at 1:52 am
Try to schedule an appointment with a specialist in the U.S. First of all, he or she will not be located in a small town, so you will have to schedule a drive to a larger city just to see a specialist. Three months? That sounds about right. Unless it’s an emergency, you are looking at about that time frame in the U.S. I’m with Suzannah. I believe state health care can work. I believe it’s greed that is stopping it. That same greed has driven young American kids from pursuing careers in medicine above the level of a receptionist, tech, or nurse. These specialists of which we speak… unfortunately many of them are named Mohammed or Vijay, and not William or Richard. I am disgusted with the medical industry, I mean racket. Insurance company + doctor Porsche + shady politician= medical nightmare that very well could bankrupt the United States. How long are American families going to accept the loss of their property and their independence and dignity just because they age?? No one is insulated from tragedy, so why do Americans accept this gamble? Maybe state healthcare is not perfect, but I am willing to try. I am sticking by my “Canadians and Cubans live longer than Americans” story too. Also, the United States ranks 48th in infant mortality rate throughout the world. 48th. Look it up…
http://www.globalhealthfacts.org/topic.jsp?i=74&srt=2
May 14th, 2008 at 11:44 pm
So what I gather from these posts is that a lot of people are willing to support somebody like Barr but we need to hear some plan on healthcare. The free market and less government regulation is not going to solve our problems.
It’s funny how people criticize healthcare systems in other countries because of their waits times. But here in the US, some people will NEVER get the surgery or treatment because of lack of insurance. Let’s see…which one is better? Waiting to get the treatment or not getting it at all?
There are ways to compromise on what kind of system to implement. Go check out the Swiss system or the Dutch system. Here’s something on the Swiss..
http://www.contracostatimes.com/business/ci_8194526
May 26th, 2008 at 11:08 am
it looks like the system is broken and is impossible to fix ~ but also difficult to imagine how it could possibly be scrapped and replaced which seems like the only answer? so may be a market based solution is a necessary transition to getting something in place that works for everyone? the theory goes that if enough people start falling through the cracks (which they already are?) then the market will respond to this ‘pent up’ demand. but what then about regulation? I don’t care if its Vijay, Mohamed, or Dalamumbaba treating my melanoma so long as she knows what she’s doing yes?
May 29th, 2008 at 3:20 pm
So Chris,
Will socialized healthcare provide limitless specialists to operate in small towns? NO.
Will the appeal of being an overworked AND underpaid government doctor or nurse encourage “young American kids” to go into medicine? NO. If greed were the issue, I would think that more greedy people would want to be “Dr. Porsche”.
You ask “How long are American families going to accept the loss of their property and their independence and dignity just because they age?”
How long are the American people going to accept the loss of their property, freedom of choice, and personal liberty just because socialist politicians want the government to control every aspect of our lives. If the government controls your healthcare, then they control what you eat, how much you exercise, how much you smoke, how much you drink, and how dangerous your hobbies are. They can and they will control these things within a few years of enacting socialized healthcare.
Our government has already seized far more power than the Constitution allows. It’s time to start taking back that power and accepting responsibility for our own lives and decisions.
You said: “I am sticking by my “Canadians and Cubans live longer than Americans” story too.” OK, defend your position in the face of empirical evidence that contradicts you. Anyway, I’d rather live 20 years in the US than 100 years in a Cuba controlled by Castro (either one of them).
You said: “Also, the United States ranks 48th in infant mortality rate throughout the world. 48th. Look it up…”
I did, at the site you linked to…. the US is listed 36th
http://www.globalhealthfacts.org/topic.jsp?i=74&srt=2&ord=1#table
There again, I’d like to know the number of those deaths caused by accidents and homocide. Causes that socialized health care won’t reverse.
Please tell me what the government has ever done that suggests it can run the healthcare system in this country. The two largest social programs in our history (Social Security and Medicare) are on the verge of bankruptcy. Why do you believe socialized healthcare would be any different?